Welcome to Common Gunsense

I hope this blog will provoke some thoughtful reflection about the issue of guns and gun violence. I am passionate about the issue and would love to change some misperceptions and the culture of gun violence in America by sharing with readers words, photos, videos and clips from articles to promote common sense about gun issues. Many of you will agree with me- some will not. I am only one person but one among many who think it's time to do something about this national problem. The views expressed by me in this blog do not represent any group with which I am associated but are rather my own personal opinions and thoughts.
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Thursday, October 13, 2011

Hypocrisy as far as the eye can see....



It would be laughable if it weren't so sad. When legislators tout new gun laws that are less restrictive by claiming that all will be fine and no law abiding gun owner will violate the laws, don't listen to them. They may be the very people we should be afraid of after the laws are passed. Such is the case of this Tennessee legislator who has "egg on his face" and more after being arrested for drunk driving the other day. Further, a loaded gun was found in his car. But hey, just trust those law abiding gun permit holders. They will do no wrong. They won't drink in bars, of course. They won't carry their guns while drunk, of course. Of course. Really folks, these law makers need to be called out for their own dangerous and seedy behavior. They are the ones making the rules for the rest of us. The larger question here is how and why they get away with their hypocrisy? Could it be that the gun lobby is just so effective and so feared that even when a law makes no sense, such as allowing guns in bars, it happens anyway? I and others have been writing about the members of the board of the NRA and their own questionable relationships with gun dealers, gun manufacturers and others who make sure that gun policy decisions benefit them. The new Meet the NRA website has been exposing the NRA of late and it is not a pretty picture. But the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington D.C. They are feared by some and their game is dangerous.

Really there is enough hypocrisy and cynicism here to last a lifetime. And so, when a gun rights extremist cries you the blues about rights being taken or guns being taken, they are "crying wolf". These are the same folks who rail against the government and who need their guns in case of a tyrannical government. And yet, they have managed, in their capacity as the 2%ers to get gun laws passed that benefit them to the disadvantage of the rest of us. They have taken advantage of "the government" they hate by getting the government, in the form of state legislatures and Congress, to do their bidding. The government is mighty handy when you need it. Because of course, as the linked article above reveals:
But supporters like GOP state Rep. Curry Todd would not be swayed, and insisted that allowing guns in bars was an "issue of personal safety." Last night, Todd was arrested while allegedly driving under the influence. He had a loaded handgun "in a holster stuffed between the driver seat and center console."
Personal safety? Is he kidding? Apparently the other Tennessee lawmakers believed this guy. Whose personal safety is more at risk when guns are allowed to mix with alcohol? The other 98% of people who do not carry their guns around in public places. See this local story as more proof that guns and alcohol are a dangerous mix ( though I have provided enough proof many times in this blog).
According to the criminal complaint, Koski said Martinson emptied his pistol twice, and he could hear a handgun being reloaded after six shots. He said he heard Martinson and another man yelling: “We’re going to get you (expletive deleted.) … You’re going to die tonight. … You’re ours.”
Wow. He was "loaded for bear" literally. Not only was his gun loaded and reloaded, but he was loaded with alcohol in his system. I would say that Mr. Koski is a very lucky man today. And Mr. Martinson will rue the day he got out his gun in a drunken state. His life will never be the same. Common sense never happens when guns and alcohol go together. But facts don't matter to the folks who think guns in bars are a case of personal safety. Facts don't matter when the NRA backed members of Congress push, as they will today, for H.R. 822 that will bring guns into bars all over the country even in states that have laws against it.  

And so we have a 2% solution looking for a problem. There is little, if any, documentation showing that a loaded gun carried by a permit holder will make us safer in a public place. But logic is not a strong suit here of the game played by the NRA. Paranoia and fear reign. If a law can be passed to benefit the 2%, it is likely to happen. If a law can be passed to benefit the gun dealers and manufacturers who put profits ahead of safety concerns, it is likely to happen. These wolves are very clever. They are couching their own personal fears and paranoia and desire to normalize this kind of behavior in language of personal safety. Don't believe them. Where is common sense?

18 comments:

  1. A politician turns out to be a hypocrite? I'm sure we are all shocked, shocked to hear about this.

    In other news, he was stupid and drunk and still managed not to injure anyone with the pistol.

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  2. You totally missed the point Stew. The man thinks it's O.K for people to carry guns in bars thinking that nothing bad will happen. Well, I don't have to explain more. You know exactly what the point is but thought you would get in an irrelevant comment anyway.

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  3. japete writes:
    "Facts don't matter when the NRA backed members of Congress push, as they will today, for H.R. 822 that will bring guns into bars all over the country even in states that have laws against it."

    There is nothing in HR 822 that overrides a state's ban against bringing a firearm into a bar. State laws like this are not impacted - HR822 is quite clear on this. We've pointed this out before.

    Bryan

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  4. japete writes:
    "And so we have a 2% solution looking for a problem. There is little, if any, documentation showing that a loaded gun carried by a permit holder will make us safer in a public place."

    We do, however, have clear documentation in states that publish it (MN, TX, FL, and others) that permit holders do not generally commit crimes, don't have their permits revoked except at a very low rate, and so on. Do you have evidence to the contrary (in the aggregate?)
    b

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  5. Pathetic spinning of the situation is what that is, pointing out that no one was hurt. The irony of this story is enough, wonderful irony.

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  6. Bryan- just the shootings and other crimes committed by permit holders all over the country. They may not be higher than other groups but they are enough to make us know that permit holders are not all the safe people you claim they are. With more of them carrying in more places, it is inevitable that there will be problems. And that, of course, is my point. You will have to prove otherwise. You will have to prove that we would be safer if more of you were carrying in more places and so far, you have not proved anything like that. We don't need this law.

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  7. japete writes:
    "Bryan- just the shootings and other crimes committed by permit holders all over the country. They may not be higher than other groups but they are enough to make us know that permit holders are not all the safe people you claim they are."

    It's not that they aren't higher - it's that they are statistically significant to a remarkable degree.

    There is absolutely no evidence statistically that the carry laws have had a negative impact on society.

    We could take any individual circumstance and find exceptions and isolated incidents - but taken as a whole, these laws have had nowhere near the sort of carnage that is frequently described on these pages.

    "With more of them carrying in more places, it is inevitable that there will be problems. And that, of course, is my point. You will have to prove otherwise."

    The annual reports from Texas, Florida, and our shared home state of Minnesota already make this pretty clear. I think the burden of proof here is on you to prove otherwise - the data clearly supports the arguments that I, and others, are making here.

    B

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  8. You have missed my point here, Bryan, once again. I am all about prevention. We don't need this law. You have not shown a need for it in any way. You just want it. I don't want it and that view is shared by the majority- the 98% of us who don't carry our guns around.

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  9. "We don't need this law. You have not shown a need for it in any way. You just want it."

    Well I suppose that's correct. We don't need freedom, but we do want it.

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  10. Come on Pyrotek- that's nonsense and I think you know it. You will have to do better than that. It's a stupid argument.

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  11. More about this story:

    Tourism to TN Up Following ‘Guns-in-Bars’ Law

    http://www.tnreport.com/2011/10/tourism-to-tn-up-following-guns-in-bars-law/

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  12. The disconnect we've been having with each other is that you're not looking at rights the way we are. They're not about needs. People actually need very little to live, and humans as a whole probably won't go extinct if we don't have the right to self defense. We want it as individuals. We can't prove a need for a right because there isn't one, just like you can't prove you need free speech. Rights aren't about basic necessities, we're not animals being kept in captivity. I want freedom, not just basic needs.

    If you can't answer why you need free speech, then I don't know what else to tell you. What would happen to you if you didn't have free speech anyway? Some countries don't (along with other rights) and the people are still able to live, so I guess they get along fine right?

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  13. It's a totally ridiculous and false assertion to think that tourism numbers have anything to do with whether or not people are carrying guns around. That's just a nonsensical argument that cannot be proven one way or the other. I would never try to use such an argument unless I has some numbers comparing the two somehow but I don't think you can do that.

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  14. Totally different issue, Pyrotek.

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  15. (I'm assuming you mean regarding free speech.)
    How so? If you can justify that we don't need a right to self defense, then what's stopping someone from using that same reasoning on another right?

    Any comment on the difference between needs and rights that we want for ourselves as individuals? I don't mean to pepper you with questions, but if all you write is a one line dismissal, that can hardly be called discussion.

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  16. I am not intending to get into a discussion about the first amendment on this post. It was not the topic of this post. You can write about it if you want. I will not be. The first amendment has restrictions. The second amendment does, too. There are no unfettered God given rights even it you want to believe that.

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  17. japete, thank you for saying:

    "It's a totally ridiculous and false assertion to think that tourism numbers have anything to do with whether or not people are carrying guns around. That's just a nonsensical argument that cannot be proven one way or the other."

    That's the argument that gunowner opponents were trying to make in TN, and I am happy that you agree that it's "totally ridiculous," "false," and "nonsensical."

    Guns-in-bars bad for tourism, officials say

    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/jan/15/guns-in-bars-bad-for-tourism-officials-say/

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  18. It looks like in this case.there was some reason to believe the law would hurt business." It's probably the single biggest issue people write and talk about when they're considering coming here," said Butch Spyridon, CEO of the Nashville Convention & Visitors Bureau. "We had international press and we have gotten letters from visitors who literally have canceled plans to visit.""

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